MSD Insider 0:00
Welcome to med shark insider with Bill Fukui, your expert host on all things medical marketing and SEO.

Bill Fukui 0:08
Hello, everybody, and welcome to another episode of med shark Insider. Today I have a genuinely a good friend, a colleague who’s been in the digital marketing space for cosmetic and plastic surgery for many years. But he also has a very diversified background. And I think he’s going to bring some insights that most, you know, digital marketing agencies and people are not able to address so I think that’s why I wanted to have him on this show to really talk about some of the how do you incorporate, you know, capital investments and large, you know, investments in either personnel, technology, things like that. And how do you do that in a cosmetic practice, without, you know, losing money losing time. So today, I’ve got Brett Cavender, who is the co founder of meta med marketing. And I’ve known Brent for many years, I have tremendous respect for him as innovator and really just a bigger thinker. So welcome today, Brant.

Brent Cavender 1:17
Thank you, thank you, and back at you much respect, really enjoyed that we can collaborate as friendly competitors, and it’s just been fun knowing you in this space bill.

Bill Fukui 1:29
Yeah, you know, Brett, I even removed the competitor word, I just, I consider you a friend. And if you know if there are situations where I can, you know, refer you clients, and it’s a good situation, you know, I’m going to do that. But only because, again, I don’t see you as a competitor, you’re a colleague. So give a little bit of background, I know you but I want you to kind of share a little bit of your background with our audience, and really how internet marketing and all that type of stuff can can actually work in with some of your background in terms of capital investments and big purchases.

Brent Cavender 2:08
Sure, sure. So I’ve been in this particular industry segment for 12 years. But prior to that, in prior lives, worked in broadband, telephones and internet, I worked in automated robotics for, you know, highly precise movements down to microns and less. And then before that, I had a pretty successful and long career in the semiconductor industry, where I would be flying off to Taiwan frequently, Singapore, often, you know, into China, and, you know, throughout Europe, we were working with large capital equipment expenditures, and it was very involved you, you would spend maybe a million, maybe $2 million on one piece of equipment that could be put into a cleanroom wafer fab. And the preparing the facilities for that equipment was just a, it was an entire project in itself. And so as I guess they’ve come over into the elective healthcare space, and working as a bit of a, obviously an ad agency with website optimization, and design and promotion, digital marketing overall, you know, I’ve really kind of thought about how the practices are sequencing the spend of their capital. And what I’m referring to specifically, and I say this with a smile, is, you know, practice managers and physicians, they go out to a different Association shows and conferences, and there’s a deal and you can’t pass it up. And before you know it, about two or three weeks later, a piece of equipment is showing up in your practice. I’m sure you’ve seen the same

Bill Fukui 4:07
Yeah, you know, we had this conversation. It’s amazing, you know, the pharmaceutical and technology sales sector, they’re the best salespeople there are in the world. And when they and when they get face to face with a doctor. It’s It’s amazing the magic they can do. But yeah, they end up they end up you know, making commitments signing papers at these meetings. And, and even though they’ve done a little homework prior to, they’ve not done the other things that I think you’re familiar with, even though it’s on their mind, they’re thinking about it even when they go to the meeting. Yeah, I’m thinking about, you know, this machine, I’m going to invest in a in mode laser or whatever. And that’s great. I love the fact that the surgeons are always trying to innovate, bring new technologies to their practice, to get paid Shouldn’t you know better outcomes and more, you know, satisfied expectations set and ultimately get more referrals from the services that they offer. I love that. And as a marketer, I want more things that I can you know, more tools that I can market and advertise. But that’s not always turns into revenue. And that’s what I’d like to talk to today is what can practices do to effectively plan for and, you know, implement in terms of when they’re making large capital investments into a practice, but half the time they don’t even tell us that, that it’s that it’s happening until, as you said, the machines in their office? And they sometimes they didn’t even don’t even have the room for it someplace? Yeah, they got this machine shovel, or we’re gonna put this well, I don’t know, we’ll figure it out.

Brent Cavender 5:57
And, sadly, the payment requirements begin immediately. So, you know, if you were to take a, you know, go up to 30,000 fee and think about the problem, and we obviously want to offer a solution. But the problem is that this is the ultimate putting the cart before the horse. What do we mean by that? What what, what we mean to say is that, okay, when you buy a large piece of a capital equipment, or maybe it’s you build out a facility, or maybe you hire some, you know, new physician or personnel for your practice, those are big expenses, and they start incurring immediately. However, those expenses should support some return on investment. But that return can’t come until there’s a demand built up for that particular laser for the new facilities for the new personnel. And what we’re talking about is flipping it, so that the practice is doing slightly more due diligence on the front end, to ensure that they vetted the product, there’s a market demand, they know where it’s gonna go, they can make the installation and facilitation of it as smooth as possible, so that they’re minimizing their expense, minimizing the disruption to practice. But what we’re really saying is that, while those things are expensive, and they show up immediately on your dock, the demand that you need to build up so that you have a revenue stream that is paying for those those capital expenses, that takes time, it’s relatively affordable, it’s it’s ridiculously affordable to build up the marketing, but you have to be thinking ahead longer term. And it this just comes down to project management. And you know, it gets a little it’s, I’m going to just get cheesy on you just for a moment. Have some fun with this. But I always think of it as turkey dinner on Thanksgiving Day, right, you’ve got you’ve got six or eight dishes that you want to all come out at the same time. And in our case, in the practice, it’s it’s about the demand for the machine coming online, just before you actually receive the machine so that you can schedule people in the first few weeks of of having that new laser or having the new personnel or facilities Does that make sense? Or, you know,

Bill Fukui 8:38
I love the analogy because my wife doesn’t cook. And when, when turkey dinner happens at our house, and there’s usually about 25 people coming over, you know, when we have like a Christmas dinner, we’ll do Turkey, and prime rib will do the whole whole thing. And you’re right, just having everything come out. And you as the cook, we all know, you as the cook, you want everything to be perfect, everything to be warm, when it’s supposed to be more, nothing dried out or whatever. And part of that is timing. You know, if that Turkey sits too long, and you’ve already carved that thing, it’s already starting to dry out, you know, I want people as soon as they’re sitting down that it’s, it’s happening. So I absolutely agree with you on that. So what if a practice is looking to say a surgeon has been you know, and we get that get inundated by sales reps and you know, marketing of different technologies and, and even they’re on on forums or stuff and people are talking about new technology. Ooh, we started doing this technology or they’re talking to a colleague, you got to look into this. This was like really, you know, the outcomes are really good. I don’t have to spend a lot of time that cuts my time down In half or whatever, so they get interested in this, what’s the first step? They need to be? What what are some, you know, maybe not the first step, but what are some first steps that you typically see as either missed? And then they you know, and then all of a sudden it just dominoes down, you know, domino effect. But what are the the handful of really upfront things that you see being missed that if you do these things, even if not everything is in line you’ll cover is that 80? You know, 8020 rule, cover these 20% of the things, and that’ll get you 80% of the way there.

Brent Cavender 10:38
Yeah, it’s it’s, it’s ironic that the probably the most valuable things that practice managers and physicians in charge of these large capital equipment expenditures, the easiest things they could do that would give them the biggest bang for the buck, cost them nothing, cost them little to almost nothing, cost them a little bit of time. But it’s just being smart and strategic and thinking in terms of project management. And so the first thing they really should be doing is they should be talking to their web vendors to ask whether or not there’s demand across the country, what are they from other practices, other doctors? What are the results? What is the demand? What are the nuances around trying to optimize for it? And you would know better than anybody, Bill, what’s one of the first things you do you go look at the keyword research? What’s the traffic around the particular technology that they’re interested in?

Bill Fukui 11:40
Right. And I think even you know, when you’re doing that, it doesn’t always have to be just to be clear, it doesn’t have to be for the technology itself. It could be for the problems that that that that technology is solving. So there are certain types of you know, if you’re trying to, you know, I’ll just use CoolSculpting as an example, because we’re all familiar with that. When CoolSculpting first came out, nobody knew what it was, it wasn’t a branded product to the consumer marketplace. Nobody knew what CoolSculpting was. So there was an education process that took place where consumers now you look at Google Trends. And you can see, people are actually looking for CoolSculpting, almost as a Kleenex, you know, a version of Kleenex. It’s, it’s a brand, it’s a brand exactly known brand. Yeah, but but not every technology in newer technology, or something that you’re going to be bringing into the practice does immediately, there’s a demand for at least from a search standpoint, because they just don’t know what it is. But that doesn’t mean they’re not looking for those the problems and solutions for those problems, and looking for content and options for those those problems. That’s where I say you start by looking at what’s the consumer demand for the problems that this technology solves? Yeah. And with that, then you can start piggybacking and starting to brand just so you know, are you familiar with with CoolSculpting? Or, or with inmode? Or with, you know, body tight or whatever? It may be that there? No, I’m not familiar with that, you know, so it’s like, ooh, now, all of a sudden, you can start introducing that brand. But you can’t start off assuming that the marketplace is going to facilitate it.

Brent Cavender 13:31
That’s exactly right. And not to get too much into the sausage making. But I know that you and I, we think in terms of keyword research every day, but for our audience, the folks that are interested in what you know, how does this work? I always like to think about the keyword research as a marriage between there’s a geographical term and there’s a contextual term. All right, let’s break down that contextual term a little bit further, that contextual term can be, as you say, can be the desired result, a great complexion, or, I don’t know, a better body sculpting some. It can be a condition, it can be a medical discipline, it can be it can be the name of a procedure, or as we’ve identified, it can be a branded name. So there’s various contextual terms, but oh, you said it beautifully. It isn’t about thinking in terms of a name. It’s about thinking in terms of what the audience potential patient is thinking in. Are they thinking in the problem? Are they thinking in the solution? Are they thinking in the desired result? And then, and then, knowing that those various contextual terms and obviously knowing some geographies around the country, we can go out and do some keyword research and we can really give practices a good indication of whether or not their timing is is right is beginning to hit as it already moved into the branded name phase where that’s recognized. It’s a little bit of a fun science even.

Bill Fukui 15:11
So, if it let’s take for example, we got practice doctor looks into it says, Brent, I’m looking into purchasing this, this technology and it does this. Are you familiar with it? No, I’m not

Brent Cavender 15:24
there for rammer jammer laser. Okay,

Bill Fukui 15:26
forever jammer laser does incredible things. I’m not familiar with it. So we’ll do a little due diligence on that I’ll get get familiar with it. But let’s say we do enough research and we say, you know, Doc, this, this looks good. You know, this looks really good. I think there’s opportunity, I see demand locally for this this type of service, or the solution that this technology brings. What would be the next step? What wouldn’t? You know, once you give the green light says, Doc, I think we should we should move forward with something like this.

Brent Cavender 16:03
Yeah. So we’re assuming that the doctor or the the physician and the practice manager has talked to their vendors, they’ve, they’ve solidified that there’s demand out there, they’ve potentially done some keyword research, then what, what you’re going to then start considering is, okay, let’s start thinking channels. All right. So now we start really kind of distinguishing different channels, and what sequencing, they should be addressing the, you know, the need to get the word out about this. Now, again, going a little bit into the sausage making, and maybe even getting a little bit onto my soapbox, it does feel that often people are so quick to go right to social media, it’s gotta be right. Or, or I’ve got to have a video about this. All these are all excellent initiatives, and they can all pay a positive return on investment. But if you really want to maximize your return on investment on any one of those channels, Mm hmm. Where are people likely going to go directly after learning about this on the social media channel in order to credential the doctor to learn about their facilities? Where are they located? What other procedures do they do? Or do they even like the way these people you know, the look and the feel of their website so that they can see that they’re a professional group. In other words, that’s a long way to say, hey, you better carve out a space in your website for a particular procedure. And again, you and I, we do this every day, and we talk with our clients, it’s got to be a dedicated page, it has to have unique copy, it has to be copy that’s optimized, and lengthy and formatted properly, there’s so many nuances to what we do around proper promotion of procedures for practices that are really looking to hit a homerun in their in their marketing efforts.

Bill Fukui 18:10
You know, and you kind of touch on on get all the planning that that comes into, you know, promoting that, you know, both in social media on the website, but you know, I think we’re practices many times fail to really because they need to start feeding the beast, when it needs to start getting a return on that investment, because we don’t have Nike dollars, or McDonald’s dollars to float on technology or anything else. And quite frankly, most of my surgeon friends are doctor friends or clients they have about this much patience to start seeing, you know, things happen, they’re impatient to see results. I would also say start thinking about some paid stuff. Because you know, if I need to immediately start priming the pump, I don’t always want to wait for organic tags to happen. I say you got to start incorporating a more diverse, so I agree with you all the social media stuff. And certainly organically starting to optimize what kind of keyword phrases people are looking for in that those technologies and making sure I’ve got really good optimized pages that can quickly and a lot of times for some new technologies and stuff. You can show up pretty quickly on organic, but it still takes time.

Brent Cavender 19:29
Exactly. And I think I think that that that is at the core of what we’re trying to evangelize about today. Although you said something else that was at the core and that is patience and planning. You said it’s a well, the organic side of it. Hey, you know developing out the page finding the right space for it so that it’s in a well organized menu structure, making sure or that the practice has approved the copy, you’ve got the right graphics, everything’s laid out beautifully before you pull the trigger, that could take a month, that could take a couple of months if if the practice isn’t responding. We do this every day, you know this. But, but then beyond that, on the organic side of our business, the search engines seem to have built into their algorithms, a camouflaging tool that requires that you’re going to be up there for a while, with good content, it’s fresh, it’s properly organized, it’s getting the kind of traction with people that go to that page. So there’s all these different factors that are going to signal to the search engines that the page is worth moving up in the list. And that takes time. But wouldn’t it be great if during that time, when you were building up the organic search volume for that particular firm or jam or technology that we’re talking about? Wouldn’t it be great if you didn’t already have to have the space allocated and you could be using it for other things, you weren’t making monthly payments already. There’s just you know, if you flip it, you put the horse before the cart, it just makes sense that you would really start to build up your demand three, four or five months before you actually accept the shipment of that equipment.

Bill Fukui 21:30
Yeah, I think building up the demand for it is absolutely it’s, I’ll use the example of, you know, this recent pandemic that we’ve had, we’ve had, you know, last year, we had practices, you know, all of the elective surgery was shut down in hospitals, and ASC she couldn’t even do cosmetics. And yet some of those practices have reported to me and a large number of them. Last year, what you know, 2020 was actually one of their most profitable years that they’ve ever had. Okay, and not just because their, you know, their overhead was cut, because some of their, and they got some stimulus money and, you know, to help help pay for some staff and things like that. But all that aside, their gross revenues was up. Because when they were able to, you know, now see patients and do surgeries, man, they had such a line of patience, already, this pent up demand, ready to go. And the other thing was their staff, and I’m going to address this too. But they had staff now that was highly motivated, man, they were going we as a team, because during this pandemic, we’re in this together, it that sense of camaraderie, and going everybody going out of their way to do things to make a difference. Now, what’s important, and I think what doesn’t make us you know, what doesn’t kill us makes us stronger kind of thing. I think there were some really, really positive things that happened in practices during the pandemic, that we can take moving forward.

Brent Cavender 23:07
Agreed 100% bill, that it forced practices to think longer term, be more strategic, because they had that time to do all these activities. You know, the idea of, you know, what’s urgent, what’s not urgent, what’s important, what’s not important? My team always teases me about this. I think it’s the fourth quadrant is the fourth quadrant. Okay, good. Yeah. The stuff that’s it’s not urgent, but it’s important, important. Yeah. And, and I would even I, while I agree, 100%, I would even add to that, that it created a sense of seriousness with the patient base, because they, you know, in their minds, they were thinking, well, this might be my window to get this done. And I might not have this window, come back around for some time, in addition to the fact that they were thinking, hey, I’m not out in society right now. Is the time to have some cosmetic procedures completed.

Bill Fukui 24:08
Yeah. I mean, taking advantage of those types of things. I think that’s creative thinking. I think that’s that strategic thinking. And that minimizes the risk. I mean, we all want to mitigate risk as much as we can, when it comes to business, business development. And quite frankly, advertising, spending money on marketing, or technology, we want to mitigate mitigate as much of the risk as we can. And that’s with planning. That’s what’s well thought out messaging. So for example, there’s times when I see practices say, Oh, I really want to promote this. I’ve been trying to get this kind of business. And I met my current web marketer is not able to do it. And I’m like, Well, let me take a look at the website. And I go to the homepage of the website, and that’s it. I don’t see anything on here that even do that. is like, well, it’s on this page, I said, Well, if it’s so important, it’s gonna be on the homepage, if it’s that important. He’s like, Oh, no, we’ll just go to the navigation. I said, if people have to, you know, search to find it, they’re not going to get to it. If it’s that important, we’re going to promote, and we’re spending money on this stuff, man, make sure that it’s in highly visible places. And we all know that the homepage gets far more traffic than any page on the website, in most cases, in most cases. But, you know, I go to that. And it’s little things like that, that we can start introducing things and take advantage of traffic and visibility. We already have, there’s already traffic coming to that site. When we do any marketing whatsoever additional for it, there’s traffic already there. Let’s take advantage of the visibility that our website and our you know, digital marketing agency has earned for that website. And let’s take advantage of that visibility. On top of maybe what we can be doing in other advertising and marketing, but absolutely take advantage of the traffic that’s already there. I mean, it’s already there.

Brent Cavender 26:11
Well, I love I love that you bring up risk management. I mean, you, you know, God forbid, you might, you might try to build demand in your marketing for a very relatively low price than $100,000 piece of equipment. And you might learn, there’s no interest. And of course, you’ve probably had the same experience as we have practices that they already had purchased the laser, then they wanted to build up demand. And then right when they received their laser, and it nobody was really wanting to do it. They wanted to they they literally sent it back. Yeah, well, of course, you’re not going to be successful with it, you you don’t have people lining up to set up appointments yet for it, because you didn’t give it that that relatively affordable time and investment in order to get the demand built up.

Bill Fukui 27:08
You know that. And this is from personal experience. This is back in the day, we all have are familiar with with laser vision correction, LASIK surgery, you know, that type of stuff. We were doing, I was doing back, you know, we I was in the TV and media advertising business when the excimer laser was approved for vision correction surgery. And so we were all jazzed about when the FDA and we knew when it was going to approve it pretty much. And so we have created TV commercials and radio spots for clients all over the country. And as soon as it got approved, the expectation from the ophthalmologist from the American Academy of Ophthalmology was that they were predicting almost 2 million procedures being done in the first year after approval. Factor The matter is it was slightly over 100,000 the expectations were so enormous, and company spent all this money. I mean, there was one laser manufacturer that purchased Jimmy Cliff’s version of I can see clearly now, if you recall that song of a great song for perfect fishing correction surgery, you could not get a better song. Now. I think they paid about a quarter of a million dollars for that the rights to use that further advertising. Wow, that company went out of business. After about a little over a year. They went out of business. Yeah. Okay. That’s because of poor planning. They didn’t realize that the marketplace was not ready for this. It was going to take years for it to develop enough confidence because people are very phobic about their eyes. I mean, you can have surgery on a lot of but don’t mess with my eyes. Man. That’s yeah, that’s a scary thing. You know, so they didn’t anticipate that even though the results were G they had 90 plus percent and 2040 and better regardless of what you know, your prescription was, the outcomes were in incredible, but yet the consumers were still not familiar with it. In fact, half of them still called it cataract surgery, you know, which is very different. But they just didn’t know so it took some time for it to mature but so many businesses they invested in the cost of an excimer laser at that time was about a half a million dollars. Holy cow. It’s It was incredible what happened. But I think that’s on a on an industry wide scale that happens on the micro scale in practices every day.

Brent Cavender 29:52
Well, it’s you know, maybe I’m getting a little bit too into the details of it, but it’s You know, in, in eight years of running this agency along with my business partner, 12 years in the industry, when you’re looking at the entire sequence of events that occurs in digital marketing, there, there really aren’t ones and zeros, meaning you don’t go from nothing to something all of a sudden, there’s there’s there’s ramp up some faster than others. Other, you know, with one exception, the launch of a weapon, new website, the launch of a new social campaign. Yeah, that’s a one or a zero, there wasn’t something there. But now there is. But in general, the audience demand the audience traffic, the number of inquiries coming in the number within the practice the ability for them to actually, you know, close an inquiry all the way to a service scheduled and completed, it’s not a one or a zero, it, it, you get a little better, little better, little better, which is all it’s all really good incentive to iterate not to look for, you don’t want to try to hit home runs out of the ballpark, every time it’s, yeah, you can go for the occasional home run. But I think the people that are super successful, they’re thoughtful, they’re strategic, they think long term, they believe that an investment actually pays a return. And investment in marketing is not an expense with no return. It is an investment that has a return, if it’s done correctly, if it’s done in the right sequence, and if it’s done at the right, at the right rate. In other words, how much how aggressive are you? Should you be more aggressive, less aggressive? Again, this, it gets very cheesy, but I, you know, I go back to thinking about it in terms of project management, what are all the things we need to do to have a successful outcome? What sequence do they do they occur in? What are the long lead time items? That’s the turkey by? And of course, in our industry segment, it’s the copywriting typically, with these websites, right? Yep. Yep, you’re gonna do it,

Bill Fukui 32:14
right. Yeah, no, and I completely agree. And, you know, I’ve talked about this touched on it really, really early in our conversation today, but I want to go back to it. And that is, internally when you guys, when a practice makes the decision to move forward with new technology, or a new process, or a new surgeon or whatever, they got to get their team in, you know, they got to get buy in from the team, they got to get the team, because these are the you know, if you really want to turn this into revenue, immediately, you’ve already got a lot of patients coming into the, into the practice, who are already candidates for this, okay, that’s why you’re bringing this technology in here, because you’ve seen patients where this can help. And you got to train staff members to kind of keep their radar open, so that they can start feeding, you know, surgical or technology, you know, patients and directing them in the right place. Because otherwise, if we really don’t get them to buy, and they’ll keep sending patients doing the same thing that they normally do, but they’ve never been really trained to, to look at patients or ask them the right questions, or, or position surfaces or technology in a way that they can actually, quite frankly, sell the surgery or sell the technology. So there’s got to be in that planing what you’re talking about, I completely agree on the planning thing. There’s got to be a patient or internal process, so that we can start not necessarily just eating what we kill for marketing. But there’s already patients here, there’s patients here every day that we can turn into immediately into more profitable and higher, you know, return on investment types of treatments. But bottom line, the patients are going to be happier. Okay, if the recovery time or why we’re investing in this technology. At the end of the day, it always boils down to the patient’s experience and outcomes, if we can continue to focus on those things, our core business, and I’m a marketer, but I will always say the healthiest practice isn’t the ones with the biggest budgets. It’s the ones that really have a better product. Okay, marketing can’t save a bad product. And if you’re just doing it to make money. I mean, yeah, we’re all in this to make money I get it, but never lose sight of the fact it is about the patients, the patients experience and the patients outcomes. And if you focus on those types of things, this is easy to sell. It’s easy to sell new things, new technologies and staff can get so behind it, that they’re on They’re excited, you almost have to, you know, create this environment where man, we’re, we’re going to, I can’t wait to talk to patients about this stuff.

Brent Cavender 35:10
You know, it’s, uh, you say that you’re really hitting it, where we need to be hitting and that is about preparing everybody thinking about it as a process thinking long term. And, and I know that you know this better than anyone else in the industry that we work in, you know, this, we this is why we I think we’ve been such nice friends for years, your idea of selling, as you’re talking about the patients, you know, getting some kind of interaction with staff, it is about educating. When you’re educating, you’re selling, my poor team is so tired of hearing me say this. We don’t sell, we educate. And if we do a good job of education, we will sell ourselves. And that’s it. I mean, it’s just as simple as that. So, boy, you bring up such a great point, Bill, that within the process of you know, when do you do this channel? When do you do that channel? how aggressively do you go? Do you bring PPC in are you doing organic and you’re thinking about the whole thing from 30,000 20,000 feet up? An element of it has to be building some, you know, some excitement, some enthusiasm, some passion and doing some internal education to your team so that they can properly evangelize about this new opportunity for patients.

Bill Fukui 36:35
You know, and the most immediate thing that I see with almost every practice that’s really successful at doing this, is they get their patients behind, and they’re actually having their patients have these procedures and treatments done, so that they can experience it firsthand, as opposed to just trying to sell it to everybody else. When you get people that says you know what, I’d like to try that myself. This looks like I couldn’t, you know, it was like when we would have in the cosmetic or in the refractive surgery arena. Man, there is nothing like having a patient care counselor who’s had LASIK, talking to a LASIK, you know, potential patient, nothing like that you can’t replace the experience. So, you know, again, get your staff involved, I mean, get the people that are going to be selling this so that they are passionate about it. And when it comes to social media, guess what they’re doing. They’re doing social media themselves. That’s where it really, really pays off is is when it’s real. When the outcomes and the results are real.

Brent Cavender 37:48
And authenticity, inspire. I love that word. It moves people. Whereas in authenticity, if that’s even a word,

Bill Fukui 37:58
yeah, I believe it’s an important word.

Brent Cavender 38:02
People smell it. Feel it? And and, you know, between, you know, education, authenticity, passion, excitement about something, you just can’t help but move other people towards towards a different direction on some new technology. Yeah,

Bill Fukui 38:21
well, you know, Brett, I loved having this conversation with you, you, you, you inspired me this was this conversation came from came from you. And I think it’s, it’s a topic that really should be addressed more in practices. And I invite practices that are really thinking about hiring a new new associate, building another office, introducing new technologies or expanding their, their practice to include, you know, non surgical, if they don’t do that already, how to plan for those types of things. I encourage them to reach out to you. I mean, because you you’re really good on the planning side of it. And you think differently than most of my marketing colleagues, I would say, you know, in general, there are some good people out there, but I would say I would put you in that category that I would trust you to give good advice to, you know, to a practice without any pretense of you have to buy something from me. So that’s what I like about you. So, Grant, I’m actually going to if you have if anybody is interested in in reaching out to Brent, well, what’s the best way to reach you? The

Brent Cavender 39:36
best way is to catch me through my website that which is at Mehta, med marketing me ta M Ed marketing. Email address is Brent period C at minimum and marketing. And that that should get them to me.

Bill Fukui 39:52
Okay, that sounds great. Yeah, I encourage you to reach out to Brent. He’s a great guy. And I think we think very similarly about, you know, at the end of the day, if we can help practices, many of them will become clients. But the ones that do become clients, they are the best clients. Because there is a, you know, a common understanding, we don’t rush sales, the the worst sales happen when is when somebody feels threatened or they’re, you know, really haven’t put the thought into it. I don’t want those kinds of clients, I want clients that really kind of think through what it is that we’re what our value is what they need. And if that’s a good fit, not necessarily, you know, I need this and I need it done tomorrow. Those usually turn out to be short term relationships. So

Brent Cavender 40:46
I’m only smiling bill, because all of my clients have had the talk. That talk right before they’re about to sign on with us, we have the talk that, hey, I need to let you know, this is hard. It takes patience. It takes persistence. But here’s the good news, if you can, if you can have the faith to get to the process project management with us, then when we’ve launched your website, and we’ve given it a couple of months of you know, strong promotion, guests who it’s going to be hard for them. Yeah. And that seems to really excite people but it also sets expectations appropriately. Right.

Bill Fukui 41:29
I think that I think that’s only fair. Well, Brent, thank you again, I you know, I will have you on in a future show. That’d be great. We’ll talk about some other topics but I’m so glad that you brought this one you know brought this up in our last conversation and I’m glad we can share some of this insight some of your insights you know, with my audience,

Brent Cavender 41:50
it’s been fun. Thanks, Bill. Take take care of bread. Have a great day. See ya man.

MSD Insider 41:54
Thanks for joining us for the med shark insider with Bill Fukui join us next week for another dive into all things medical marketing. All episodes can be streamed at WWW dot med Shark digital.com/med Shark Dash insider

Transcribed by https://otter.ai