MSD Insider 0:00
Welcome to med shark insider with Bill Fukui, your expert host on all things medical marketing and SEO.

Bill Fukui 0:08
Hi, everybody. Welcome to another episode of med shark Insider. And I am really honored today because I only not only do I have a friend on the line, but somebody that I’ve I told her from when we first met a while back that I saw her from afar and I was like always intimidated by her because she was like this larger than life personality when it came to credibility in terms of marketing, medical practices, speaking at conventions, and I have the luxury of having Danna Fox on on today’s show. And I wanted to for those that don’t know, Danna, she is a longtime veteran, and have been in the business as long probably longer than I have, which there’s not too many of us. That’s been out there that long, but but she’s she’s kind of been able to move with the times. And that’s one of the things I’ve always liked about Danna was, she always is very adaptable to changes in the marketplace. And so today, we’re going to be talking a lot about changes that we’ve seen over the course of time as it relates to branding and referrals and keeping patients. So I want to welcome Danna Danna, could you do a little introduction for yourself and let people know that don’t know you a little bit of background on yourself and welcome today?

Dana Fox 1:43
Thank you so much bill. And it was quite an introduction. And yes, when the earth was still cooling, I started my first marketing business. In the plastic surgery arena, so I have been an industry consultant in that area for about 30 years. And I’ve most recent things that I’m excited about is the American Society of Plastic Surgeons, has asked me to write a second book on a branded part with Dr. Greg Evans, who’s Past President of ASP s. And that will launch in October at the ASP s, an annual meetin us great, get it land

Bill Fukui 2:26
Congratulations Dana

Dana Fox 2:27
thank you very excited about it, it’s a real honor. And I think, probably the reason for that is that I haven’t I haven’t made too many enemies. You know, it’s hard to be in an industry for a very long time. And, and not make, make mistakes, and so forth. And so and I think practices, probably experience some of that themselves, that when you when you start a medical practice, in the beginning, you have a very different idea of what it’s going to look like them 510 15 years later, as a mature doctor in a mature practice. And so it’s the same with me as a professional marketer.

Bill Fukui 3:09
Well, Danna, you, you have had great experience. And one of the things and this was we just had this conversation, just maybe last week, was a lot of the changes that that we’ve seen over the course of time. I mean, we were marketing, you know, cosmetic and plastic surgery. Back in the days when, when, when you were pretty much limited to traditional media, or yellow pages was pretty much you know, what your options were. So branding is, you know, used to be a very different animal back then, as when we say branding, today, it is very different. And especially with the internet, and you know, with digital, social, all those types of things. What would you say in terms of, you know, this whole idea of what, what is the role of branding today for, say, a plastic surgery practice, whether they’re a new practice, or one that’s been around, but really never invested in, quote, a brand.

Dana Fox 4:15
You know, those are great questions, Bill. And I was thinking about reflecting about what you said, in terms of how branding has changed. And I would say that branding, in its actual definition hasn’t really changed. What has changed are the mechanisms, the delivery systems, without we how we provide information to the public or specifically to the demographic that a specific practice is trying to reach. That’s different. But what I think is fascinating about this is when you mentioned Yellow Pages, it was nothing for a surgeon or dermatology practice or any kind of an aesthetic practice to spend 50 75,000 then 100,000 on just Yellow Pages alone. And then if you add billboards, and you add radio and so forth, and in the very beginning of the sort of the internet stage, if you will, it was nothing for practices to spend 50,000 a month on a directory site. So definitely, physicians have always spent quite a bit on marketing. But we’re branding comes in, and I think this is probably the most important thing that I could share with any of your viewers is that branding is not just the logo, it’s really the messaging about who you are, what you believe in, what are your products that you’re selling, that might be different than some of your competitors, or even if they’re the same product, your approach might be different. So I find that physicians don’t spend enough of the downtime, really thinking about who they are, how they might talk about themselves, in different terms. So I think that’s where branding comes from. And it’s from the words of the vision, if you will, of the doctor, or the team of doctors, that that guide, what the branding is actually going to look like in the printed word, and then the visual presentation.

Bill Fukui 6:23
I think you brought up you know, the one point that I you know, that sticks with me is number one branding hasn’t changed, it’s still, the fundamentals of that has changed, it’s the delivery or the channels in which those messages are being crafted and delivered. The other thing would be the, this idea of differentiating what what makes you different, unique, you know, those types of things. And I think with you know, the internet today, we’re talking about, even on certain platforms, they they’re called stories and stories or stories for a reason. It’s it’s, you know, part of this is an opportunity to really tell a practice a story, who they are, I was on the phone, literally before we got on on today with a practice out in Indiana, and I, you know, I know that practice really well. And I said, You know what, I look at what you guys are doing. And what you guys have here is not what I’m seeing online, you know, it’s not being translated, everything here is stock photography, everything is you know, I don’t know, kind of generic content and stuff. I said, Man, you guys, what you guys have here is so unique. None of that, really, I don’t see that when I come to your website. So I think there is a, you know, when you’re talking about branding, how can you do that too. The other thing would be a niche audience is you don’t need to be a Nike to the rest of the world. But you do need to have a brand to, uh, you know, that target audience that you you’ve identified

Dana Fox 8:07
some of the questions that that you had provided for me for our conversation today. So that I could at least be sort of thinking about them a little bit was, how do you sort of establish what you’re going to be marketing. And I think one of the stumbling blocks I see for a lot of doctors, especially in the aesthetic world, where now you can do so many things. It isn’t really just surgery, it isn’t just skincare or appeals. It’s sometimes dozens and maybe multiple dozens of procedures and products. And so when when a practice is trying to decide, Well, what exactly am I going to market, they want to they want to actually market everything. And I think that’s a real stumbling block a real problem. Because then you become known as a generalist, you don’t become known for anything specific or anything that you can really hang your hat on and say, Boy, I am really an expert in this area. You can do everything of course you can do all the procedures and every everything that you are able to do and trained to do. But it’s what you market that will really differentiate you and honing that in making it a narrower presentation is going to be much more effective. You’ll get there much faster by only marketing three to five things that you actually do and doing it really well. I think that’s really the the difference. You

Bill Fukui 9:39
know, now that you’ve kind of got jumped right into this whole idea of how a practice can start, you know, formulating their own brand, which I think is really the goal of this show today is to give people some some insights. When you’re working with a client in terms of branding, how do you Get them to narrow down those those things because there’s so many, you know, what I call eye candy? There’s so much stuff that all these vendors and everything’s dangling in front of Dr. Machines that they’re selling technology that they’re selling. Now they’re trying, and they’re trying to sell everything to everybody. It’s hard not to do that, how do you talk to a practice? And get them to focus in on the things that they need to? And how do you start that process of developing? You know, that, you know, it’s kind of esoteric, what is the brand? And what how do you communicate that concept of a practice?

Dana Fox 10:38
No, I think that’s that is the perfect question for this. In fact, it’s one of the chapters that I’m working on right now, for MSPs is when you look at how physicians market themselves, because for the most part, they’re scientists, so they think in terms of facts and figures, and in the details, but it’s not how consumers buy, we buy for emotional reasons we don’t buy for the facts. And the figures, even if we say we do even for the analytical person, they still have, there’s still an emotional trigger that says, This is the product, this is the car. This is the house, it triggers something in us emotionally. And that’s why we buy it. So when you think about physicians really honing their message, you need to sort of put your feet in the shoes of the consumer, why is it that they want to have a specific product or service or outcome, and really thinking about about that. But let me come back to something else that I sort of failed to mention. You asked how I do this. And when we work with the client, we spend a lot of time upfront, and sometimes they push back and they go, I don’t want to spend the time. And actually the time that we spend upfront, that hour, hour and a half interview of really talking to you really finding out what motivates you, what drives you, what are you about as a person, as a physician, as a father, as a husband, whatever the elements are. And then from that information, we find the gyms or the jewels that you will, that can be quotes or that can be built into an actual messaging for you really hone in on this is how Bill Fukui is unique among all of the others in Denver. So without that it’s flat, and you see it in hundreds and hundreds of websites, they start with a box, they start with photos, they start with a color palette. And the rest is just also known as you know, it’s just doesn’t do anything to differentiate you. So start with the content first. In fact, that’s one of the things you know, I’m no longer really in the internet marketing field, if you will. But in writing about the internet historically, which is what we’ve been doing for the book is that internet marketing is going to change from from week to week, day to day, anything that we thought was gospel two or three years ago, is no longer the case, the only remaining thing that is constant, and that I really don’t see changing is content. Because the only reason that someone typed something in when they’re searching for something is it’s written, and it’s what they’re looking for. So if the content is really fully developed, whether it’s in a brochure, it’s in a loyalty program, or it’s on your website, that’s the most important thing. And the visual elements will change over time. Color Palettes change every five years, according to the International color Council, right? We you know, people buy new furniture, new carpeting because their colors are out of date. The same thing for your website and your brochure. But who you are doesn’t really change that much. Your mission, your core values, why you’re special, that doesn’t change so much. It can evolve, but it doesn’t really change now.

Bill Fukui 14:22
No, I think that’s a that’s a great point. And it does, and you’re right, it does change and it needs to change, simply because even like logos, they think I think when you say branding, I think what immediately comes to somebody’s mind and most practices is our logo, and they always assume associate branding with our logo, but it is much more than a logo and your brand doesn’t really change that much. But many times your logo should. I see a lot of logos out there that probably should it’s sending the wrong message. It’s sending the wrong message than what they become. That was a logo that they created a long time ago. And they’re, it’s just our brand. And I think they’re kind of getting fixated on something that really isn’t their brand,

Dana Fox 15:16
or they’re fixated on an icon. Yes. And the icon itself can become very dated, but the treatment or the name of the practice, that can that can live sort of the life of the practice, with very minor modifications to make it an updated look. It’s when we get into icons and silhouettes of bodies and silhouettes of faces, and then you add a completely different division or, or product line to your practice. And the icon no longer fits with anything else that you’re doing. So I think that’s very true. So I think, spending more time on the font treatments of things, and really identifying your practice by name, as opposed to an icon specifically. So

Bill Fukui 16:07
give me an idea of this branding process, you said, you know, a practice may spend some upfront time when they start doing interviews, getting you whatever you need to really kind of get to know them, and understand who they are their, quote, story. How long does it take? Number one, how long does it take for you, or the practice to figure this process of creating a brand? How long does that take and, and really, I’ve seen, you know, some of these, quote, branding agency, you know, that can be 2030, I’ve seen it as high as 50 $60,000, to create a brand. What should practice look at investing when it comes to both time and money when it comes to developing your brand?

Dana Fox 16:59
Well, the numbers that you just mentioned, those would, I would say those are probably more associated with very high end agencies like a park Park Avenue agency, or San Francisco, or Beverly Hills kind of agency, where they’ve got, you know, dozens and dozens of employees. And of course, they’re trying to make a bottom line. When normally when you work with an individual branding specialist, like myself and my creative team, we were nowhere near that we spend, we would, I would say in hours, not weeks or months, I’ve seen agencies spend a full year, yeah, your brand, which is ridiculous. For private practice, or even a group practice, we did a huge practice a couple of years ago, in Atlanta, Georgia, that was part of the Emory healthcare system. So it’s a $4 billion organization. But even for something like that, the entire project was probably under 10,000. And that was for that huge organization. So for a private practice, it’s a couple of $1,000 to really delve in and do that, and then provide them with a with a final document that they could take to a website company, or they could take somewhere else to have them deliver that. So I think it does not have to be expensive, but you do have to invest the time, your own personal time. Otherwise, you may as well forget about doing it.

Bill Fukui 18:39
No, you know, I think and that I think is reasonable. That is a small investment of something that you’re going to get residual value, you know, that that’s going to carry into everything that you do, and let’s face it, you’re spending a lot more money on the exposure, whether it’s media, SEO, pay per click, you’re spending a lot more money on the exposure, it’s like buying a Superbowl ad, they may spend $200,000 to produce that commercial, but that one spot is going to cost them $2 million, you know, for 30 seconds, right? You know, it’s worth putting that money into the message because it’s that exposure is so expensive. You know, so I,

Dana Fox 19:26
I’m sorry, but you’re right, you reminded me of something that if you if physicians in particular, would think about how consumers try to find them. Because I think that there’s not a lot of thought given that we have as humans, we have the tendency to think whatever we’ve put out there is a very high value, but it may not be of value, how it’s written or how they’re talking about it may not be a value to the demographics that they’re trying to attract to their prep. depths. And so I think you have to sort of get out of your own way, in some instances, and really start thinking about, as you, I think you actually alluded to it, at the very early stages, we are exposed to somewhere around 10 15,000 ad messages a day, in some cases more, depending upon where you live. So your mind has to, so that you don’t drive yourself crazy, you have to filter out everything that is not important to you. And also not important to you right now. Because something could be of interest to you down the road. But if it’s not right now, then you filter it out, you’re not even you’re not going to call on it, you’re not going to click on it, because there are too many other things that you’re housing in your brain. So I think practices probably need to understand that a little better, just because we think it’s cool, may not be what the consumer that they’re trying to approach at that point, you know, and I talked to I actually talked to an ad agency out of San Diego, and their whole focus is on radio, and billboards and so forth. And they’re their whole principle, if you will, is that big and bold? What what happens if you’re driving along four or five? In San Diego, and the the millions of people that make that drive? Well, how many eyeballs hit that billboard that actually care? Yeah. Whereas if you think about with the internet, it’s so different. That’s why website companies and SEO companies in particular, have such a greater advantage. Because if I’m sitting at my computer, and I decide, I really want to get rid of love handles, or I really want to get rid of my double chin, I am now looking for that. And I’m typing that in. And so it’s a whole different, I think the internet changed everything for marketing, and nothing that we do today was not impacted by the internet.

Bill Fukui 22:08
Yeah. And, and branding is absolutely no, you know, no exception. In fact, it’s probably even more so. Right. When it comes to marketing. You had mentioned, you know, and I appreciate all this great insight, because I’m not a brand, you know, I’m not a brand person in terms of my marketing expertise. I’m more of the direct response, you know, let’s get in front of the right people, you know, that kind of stuff. And building a brand was always kind of, it wasn’t my strength. And I can say that, I love the fact that you have a much deeper understanding of that. And I’ve actually seen some of your work. And I can attest that, you know, you understand when it comes to a practice. And when I talk to those, because I’ve actually talked to some of those practices. And they talk very differently about their practice in their brand. Having worked with a branding agency or somebody that understands or makes them think about their brand, right off about their practice very differently.

Dana Fox 23:10
Well, that’s good to hear.

Bill Fukui 23:11
Yeah, no, it is they talk very differently. You had brought up in something that you said earlier, whether it it affects your your website, your your loyalty programs and stuff like that. Branding is such a important thing about staying relevant, staying top of mind and painting a picture, the concept of loyalty, as it relates to brand. I’d like to talk a little bit about that. Once you start getting patients and yeah, they’re now they’re familiar with who you are. What do you do to maintain? You know, I’m seeing a lot of, you know, practices invest in these loyalty programs, a lot of cosmetic industries, vendors and stuff have really understood that developing a quote, lifetime patient, you know, that loyalty is I mean, that’s where you you really do compound, return on investment is on that. Talk to me a little bit about you are one of the first people I knew that that really kind of started developing loyalty programs and stuff like that. Where does that fit in today’s you know, online marketing and in practices today.

Dana Fox 24:34
I think that’s a great thought in terms of what practices need to do to develop better recurring revenue. Because the whole point you know, when you look at the frequent flyer program, for example, I’m a million miler on Alaska Airlines. I dream of going on another airline, if at all possible. And I’m Starbucks I’m a million mile or there are two. Okay, so So Ambit but in both cases, I would probably be a loyal consumer regardless, but I must say that I really appreciate the loyalty perks that come along with that. And so about 15 I think it’s been at least 15 years ago, my creative team and I started developing loyalty programs for practices. And the whole point of those is to stimulate recurring revenue. I think the the tragedy for a lot of plastic surgeons some years ago, is they do a facelift, and maybe liposuction and, you know, maybe 1520 $30,000 worth of procedures, and then lose that patient to a practice down the street for Botox and fillers and other things. And the patient never even knew that those services were available with the doctor that did all of their work. And so practices didn’t know how to introduce ongoing services to their surgery patients. And so that was one of the impetuses for us to create the loyalty program in the first place to have an attractive presentation to give to a surgery patient, letting them know that once your surgery is completed, we’re here to serve you in other areas. And so that’s really how they started for us. And of course, Allergan was doing brilliant distinctions at the time, their program has been around for a very long time. And so any of the loyalty programs that we created, we just rolled brilliant distinctions right into them, okay? All, most all recurring products that are sold today have some kind of a loyalty program. And you can marry all of those into one document that’s branded to you. And that was the other thing that we felt, it’s one thing for you to have a brand distinctions program, but so does every other doctor in our

Bill Fukui 27:04
salutely. That was my next point. My next question was how to, you know, for a practice that, that uses brilliant distinctions, or any one of the other technology companies they all offer? Like you said, some loyalty, you know, capabilities for practices to leverage? How does it practice? You know, what do you do when you’re consulting with a practice to somewhat differentiate between the other brilliant, does brilliant distinctions and all these other practices around 10?

Dana Fox 27:35
Right? Well, it all goes back to what our initial conversation was, was branding, everything to the practice. So the loyalty program needs to be brand, in my opinion, needs to be branded to the practice, just like everything else. But let’s talk about how do you set up a loyalty program? Because I think there’s a lot of confusion about that. And what takes the time is the mechanics of it, what are the levels of service that you want to provide? And what level of discount Are you willing to apply to those services and products. And we always found that if there was an initiation fee, into a program, that it was stickier that patients had some investment into the program. And for that, we would put together a series or set of perks and things that of course, the practice is buying wholesale, but on the brochure and the loyalty program, it has a retail value, so the patient is getting something for their investment, and then everything else that you are adding to that to the various, you know, program that you want to offer, are some discounts for that otherwise, what is the point of the investment that the patient is making? So they’re doing this because yes, they love you, but they’re also getting a little something for that, you know,

Bill Fukui 29:03
that’s a great point. Because I, I see some programs that are just, you know, you just pay a little bit or you just get this discount or something, there is no upfront buy in kind of thing. What would you say, for the practices as well, I don’t have patients that can really, you know, drop hundreds of dollars or in some cases $1,000 on a loyalty program. What do you say to uh, practices, I don’t have that kind of patience. I don’t have those kinds of patients.

Dana Fox 29:36
Well, if they have patients that are buying cosmetic procedures from them, that are coming in for fillers and for products, they they have the money for a loyalty program. I think that practices that don’t think their patients can afford this, you’re kidding themselves. Because that’s not true. They do. And but there’s so many ways of doing this. It really does need to Meet the demographics of where the practice is located. If you are a Marina del Rey, or Huntington Beach or Beverly Hills practice, your clientele is going to be a little different than than something that’s in Encino, or that is in Riverside, even though it’s within a 23. Mark, you are going to have a different sort of database, and a different, I would say, point of buy in. So those things are all factored into when you’re developing your loyalty program. You can’t look at one that was done for a grant Stevens for example, or, you know, somebody that is very, very high profile, who has, you know, clients that are at a very different economic bracket. So each each program is developed and identified around your demographics. And the services that you provide

Bill Fukui 31:00
a, maybe another layer on to that, where does the staff fit in into the, into the rollout into the execution of a loyalty program?

Dana Fox 31:10
I think it’s so critical to anything that a practice is doing. In fact, that’s another chapter I’m writing right now, even on something goal setting for physicians, they don’t include their staff and that they’re losing such valuable resources. But when you look at doing something, rolling something out, like a program, such as a loyalty program, your staff involvement and buy in, is so essential that without that, we won’t even work with a practice that doesn’t include their staff, because it’s doomed to failure, right. And in fact, if they don’t get staff buy in, they could be off by miles, I guarantee you that the staff knows far more about the buying habits of their patients than any physician that I have ever worked with. So salutely, you have to have that, that involvement. And further beyond that the staff needs training with how to introduce it, so that they don’t feel like they’re selling something. I think that’s the whole point, this is a gift with purchase kind of thing. And so understanding the language that you need to use the dialogue, that’s all part of a sales package, that the staff needs to understand how to present it.

Bill Fukui 32:30
Yeah, and I think the the idea of, you know, that mentality of, quote, selling something, as opposed to really being excited about offering value, or, you know, the benefits of it, not so much the cost. And I think that’s where you kind of pointed out that these patients can afford it, if they’re coming in and, and paying disposable dollars on surgery, on cosmetics on, you know, aesthetic services, they can afford these things, and half the time. It’s our own head trash. It’s our own head talk Trump talking us basically negotiating with ourselves, yeah, we negotiate with ourselves and say, Oh, they’re not going to do that. And I’ve never even talked to them yet. You know, so

Dana Fox 33:14
go on the staff issue, if you made me think of something that I think is especially important to this discussion, when you’re creating the loyalty program, and you are including your staff in this in this process. So they are helping guide the process of what the practice is ultimately going to offer to their patient base. If the discounts aren’t valuable, or if the staff does not believe that this is a good deal for patients, they will never sell this right. And I see this, it’s so fascinating. I have seen a few practices come out with what they think would be a good percentage, and they’ll offer something like a 5% discount. If that’s where you’re coming from, this is not the product for you, you need to step away from this, because that will do more damage for your practice than to propel it because from the patient’s perspective, you look cheap. So you really have to think about this from a psychological perspective. If you want people to get excited and buy more than you have to make it worth their while and it needs to look like there’s really some value and that you’ve actually thought about them at least that should be the perception of your loyalty program.

Bill Fukui 34:32
You know, when you first brought the idea of you know, loyalty programs when I was first introduced the loyalty programs, largely from you. You know what I found? I found interesting that I said, if a practice embraces this, what they will do is not only just will they offer a loyalty program, they’ll change the way they think in that practice. They they change the relationship that they have with their, their patients, right and, and how they speak to them. And know that this is not a, I’m having surgery and probably never going to see these people again, I think the mentality when you implement these types of things, changes, you know how people in the practice think, and it changes the dialogue of the interactions they have with patients. And I think that, that more than anything, is as much as there’s value in the program itself. It’s changing the tonality, the conversations, the relationships that they have with their, with their patients, mainly because I have this loyalty program is somewhat of a as a, as a crutch to do that. You know, and I’ve always thought that, you know, this whole loyalty program is such a valuable thing, even above the marketing is it just changes the, you know, how the practice feels about themselves and the relationships that they have with their patients?

Dana Fox 36:00
Absolutely. What elevates the customer service,

Bill Fukui 36:03
customer, customer service is really the work that needs to be

Dana Fox 36:07
really elevates that. And practices have experienced this for a long time where patients are bringing them cookies, or cake or flowers, post procedure. So, so when you start looking at rewarding them for this, you’re now seeing these patients a lot more. Yeah, they have a friendship with the practice. It’s very interesting, when you see the dynamics of that change.

Bill Fukui 36:33
Yeah, and that’s what when you first brought that, you know, the loyalty concepts. You know, when I was first being introduced to it, that’s the first thing that came to mind and said, Man, that can really change the dynamics of a practice. And I, and that’s what I thought was such a kind of eye opening thing is that a loyalty program could do more than just generate a few bucks. Right? You can change how you think.

Dana Fox 37:01
Good point. Excellent point, though. I’m gonna write that down.

Bill Fukui 37:06
Well, hey, I got it from you. So hey, any, is there anything else? I would say? If you’re, you know, what would be the, you know, you talked about the structure and getting this stuff done. I’d like to end with a with one last question, what would be the biggest pitfall or the biggest failure? Why these? Because I’ve seen in some practices, you know, we really, we have one, but we really don’t do much with it and doesn’t really do much. What’s the difference or pitfalls from a practice that is got got a loyalty program that is hitting on all cylinders, and is wildly successful, and one that is not successful? Or even just mildly successful? What would you say would be the one thing that would be different?

Dana Fox 37:54
You know, Bill over the years, I don’t know how many podiums you and I’ve shared, but it’s, it’s been a fair number over all these years, and I’m sure you’ve heard me say this a million times. It’s never the what, it’s always the who, it’s who is designated with driving this in the practice, and is the cheerleader or the champion, and is excited about it. Because I as we were talking earlier, I was thinking about the practices that have failed with this. And there’s not that many, but the practices that have failed, it’s been very consistent every single time. Very lackluster excitement from the doctors, oh, care less about it. Not really don’t really fully get it feel like okay, we gotta do it. Let’s just do something. Therefore, attitudes filtered down, they don’t filter up. So when there’s no enthusiasm from from the founder or the practice head, then the attitudes moving down the practice are also the same. Yeah. And so if it’s lackluster in that regard, the whole program is lackluster, and it never catches on. So I would say that’s the most important. Secondarily, I’ve seen programs that are way too complex. Oh, okay. 35 charts and they’ve got, you know, all different segments of this thing makes your head hurt when you look at it. This has to be simple, stupid. It’s got to be really simple. You can look at it and you go, Well, this is a no brainer. If I invest $500, I get x number of savings for the rest of the year. If I spend 700 I get this. If I spend 1000, I get this big discount. And that’s exciting. So it mean it’s all in the details, making it simple, compelling and having the enthusiasm that it needs to drive anything.

Bill Fukui 40:05
Oh, that, you know, great points, Dan. And I think in the day to day, and you’re right, we’ve shared the podium num a number of times. And and let’s face it, we always need to be reminded of the things that are foundational, because there’s so many things, as you said, 1000s of messages that we get all the time and sometimes we can be distracted from the really the right things that are the foundational of success in almost anything that we do. So definitely. Great words. And Danna, I want to thank you again, for all of your wisdom. In our talk today. You’ve given me almost a full hour of your time. And I know you’ve you’ve thought about this before we even got on, you know, on our show. Thank you so much. You’re always a breath of fresh air when I chat with you. You always put a smile on my face and I still have that Starbucks mug you gave me I still have that I still love. I have that with me almost every morning as long as it’s clean.

Dana Fox 41:10
I need to have you drinking Starbucks out of a dirty cop.

Bill Fukui 41:13
Yeah, exactly. Well, thank you again data and all your wisdom and I look forward to seeing you at the next meeting.

Dana Fox 41:22
Thank you so much, Bill. Take care. Thanks. Bye bye.

MSD Insider 41:26
Bye. Thanks for joining us for the med shark insider with Bill Fukui join us next week for another dive into all things medical marketing. All episodes can be streamed at WWW dot med Shark digital.com/med Shark Dash insider

Transcribed by https://otter.ai